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 Whose business is it anyway?

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Nay
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Nay

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PostSubject: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeWed May 27, 2009 10:49 pm

Hello. This is not a rant so I thought I would place it elsewhere. Instead, I have a scenario to put to anyone interested.

Last week, a colleague at work, a rather loud, occasionally obnoxious and blunt woman, called out across a group of other colleagues "Hey, I hear you .... ?" and proceeded to ask me a very personal question.

Now, I am very reserved by nature until I know and trust people. This particular older woman and I have some common history and usually agree on administrivia issues at work. But for anyone to bellow out a personal question (rather than a professional question) across a crowded room in such a tactless manner set my hair on end.

I keep my business to a small circle of people and respect others' privacy. I don't boast about what others have told me nor do I thoughtlessly reveal personal information. To do that, in my eyes, is a betrayal of friendship. My first thought in this scenario was that another friend had given this woman that particular information so I fobbed her off with a diversionary answer at the time. She's easy like that.

If a friend talked about me to someone else (whom I would not want knowing such information) - I would feel completely betrayed. Trust is not a commodity - it is a privilege - and it is too easily devalued nowadays.

So I ask you all, what does betrayal mean to you?
Do you see a distinct line between personal and other information being 'shared' to a wider group?
How much do you want known about you to third party connections?
What makes you go from trusting someone to not trusting them?
Do you mind if what you say, chat about or type is assumed to be public knowledge and therefore open to use or interpretation by others?


I'd love to know what you think.
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greyeyegoddess
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greyeyegoddess

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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeWed May 27, 2009 11:11 pm

Maybe that woman thought you two were closer than you thought she was. Some people do make assumptions.

In this day and age, I don't say or write anything I don't want repeated. Even if I email privately, eventually, someone can find out about it.

Having said that, I'm quite opened about myself. But if someone says, "Please don't repeat this", I won't....UNLESS they do betray me. I don't go spouting things, but I don't feel the need to keep confidences about people who cannot keep them about me, or who lie about me, or who accuse me of things that I didn't do. That's a worse betrayal to me.

What does betrayal mean to you? To me, betrayal is assuming or believing something from someone outside our friendship, over the friendship I have with someone. Did that make sense?

That's been the betrayal I've seen and my close friends have experienced.

Do you see a distinct line between personal and other information being 'shared' to a wider group? Like I mentioned, being on the internet and having places like Twitter and social forums, there aren't a lot of things I won't discuss. But I think that comes from how I grew up. The tiniest things we did embarrassing in our home, my mother would call her sister and rant about it to her. There wasn't much that we did, that wasn't common knowledge.

Having said that, there are very few things that I do not discuss; some very, very private matters.

How much do you want known about you to third party connections? It's hard to find my real full name out in the internet, but you can find greyeyegoddess everywhere. So in a way, I am hiding something, under another name.

Maybe I have a tendency to want people to know about me and vice versa. Don't know.

What makes you go from trusting someone to not trusting them?
When they decide to believe something that someone else has told them, or when they accuse me of something I didn't do. I take full responsibility of anything I do, IF I DID IT. I don't do "sorry" if I don't feel sorry for it.

Do you mind if what you say, chat about or type is assumed to be public knowledge and therefore open to use or interpretation by others?
That is something that I've already accepted, having been on the internet. If you don't want people to see it, don't post it. Even private places aren't really private. I write my blogs on my computer even before I post them online to sift through things I may not want to say out loud.
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Leo
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Leo

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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeWed May 27, 2009 11:14 pm

That stinks, Nay. And probably gut wrenching, too. BIG HUGS.

I've always known you to be polite, discreet and kind to everybody in here. I would imagine that's how you are to the outside world as well.

I see real anger in your words tonight, something I haven't seen before, so I know this is serious.

Betrayal to me is saying one thing and then doing another. Or telling someone you think is your friend something in confidence and having that confidence broken. Or, as I've stated before...playing both ends against the middle. The sad reality is....finding out all this, they're weren't really my friends in the first place.
My way of handling this unpleasantness was to dump them. Why waste my energy on people who only want to see me trapped and miserable? There are some that would try to mend broken fences...or go on and on about how hurt they feel over my ignoring them.

Total bullshet....they know exactly what they did.

However you handle this betrayal, I'm sure it will be done with your usual grace and style.

You're all class....and there's much I can learn from you.
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LegoJulie
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2009 12:37 am

For me a betrayal is someone saying or doing something that violates relationship boundaries. Like a boss telling my mother about how I acted on a particularly bad day at work. Or a friend revealing personal or family information at work. Definitely boyfriend cheating. I reluctantly trust people, and one betrayal is all it takes for me never to trust that person ever again.

I'm a private person. I don't give out personal information easily. I miss out on lots of cute games and quizzes and websites because they want my email or address or phone number or birthdate or real name.

I understand that anything I post on websites, forums, blogs, Myspace, guestbooks, open chats, etc. are public. However, I consider emails, PMs, snail mails, phone calls, and private chats to be private, between me the select participants only.
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greyeyegoddess
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2009 1:26 am

Leo wrote:
The sad reality is....finding out all this, they're weren't really my friends in the first place.

I think that is the hardest lesson to learn.

LegoJulie wrote:
However, I consider emails, PMs, snail mails, phone calls, and private chats to be private, between me the select participants only.

Unfortunately PM's, depending on the forum or site, can be checked by the owner, and I've known an owner or two to have done so in the G world. I am careful what and who I talk about on PM's, unless I can say it to someone's face. If I need to rant in a place I'm not sure of, I take it to my email.

As long as you don't own the space online or the host, you cannot assume that your private online communications are private.
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LegoJulie
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2009 3:01 am

greyeyegoddess wrote:
Unfortunately PM's, depending on the forum or site, can be checked by the owner, and I've known an owner or two to have done so in the G world.
I don't mind them checking, since they own the sites and are liable for contents. If they pass on those private informations, then that's a betrayal of trust between users and owners.

For PM's and other "private" online communications, I trust the people whom I contact privately to keep those things private, and not go spouting off anywhere else. Posting something like this in the forum:
"Hey, forum, guess what? LegoJulie told me in PM that she has a third arm growing out of the top of her head!"
is a no-no.

Question If I were to have a third arm growing out of the top of my head, would that arm stretched up count as part of my height? cheers
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Nay
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2009 6:01 am

Granted that I am not a celebrity/fame whore in any way, my position is simple - if you want someone to know your business, you will directly tell them. To use an opportunity to spread information in front of an audience usually only assists the troublemaker. We all know someone like that - So intrigued, worried for us ... blah blah blah ... What should I do? What do you think?

If someone, colleague or not, was concerned/curious/fascinated by me (my moods, thoughts, likes, goals, dreams or plans) they would only need to approach me. It then becomes my choice to share with them or not. I don't like that decision leaving my hands.
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DonnaKat
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2009 8:27 am

LegoJulie wrote:
For PM's and other "private" online communications, I trust the people whom I contact privately to keep those things private, and not go spouting off anywhere else.

Unfortunately, that isn't always the case. I know I have shared very personal things via PM with people, only to find those personal things have been shared on public forums for discussion. Even if that person is never mentioned by name, nevertheless it wouldn't be hard for a particularly nosey person to find out who they were referring to. And even if that never happens, nevertheless at the same time to run across someone talking about you...even indirectly...makes one feel as if they've been "fed to the wolves", so to speak.

For example:

Let's say I'm very angry and upset at my sister, and I need to vent to someone so I PM Jane Doe. I say "I HATE my sister, I can't believe she did this to me, blah blah blah". Now anyone who knows me knows full well I don't really "hate" my sister. Maybe I'm PMS'ing, maybe I just got some bad news about someone in my family, maybe I'm hungover, cranky, haven't had my caffeine, or a combination of any or all of these things. But instead of letting things blow over, Jane Doe goes and posts something on a public forum: "Guess what, a friend of mine told me earlier today that she hates her sister!" Now since these people don't know me nor do they have all of the facts, they jump to their own conclusions: "How dare she say that!" "That's not normal, no one should hate their sister!" "She needs family counseling because she's obviously mentally unstable." etc etc etc....how am I going to feel when I read that? Embarrassed? Guilty? Hurt? Obviously I was upset enough when I thought I needed to vent, and now I'm going to feel even worse.

Nay is right. Once something said in confidence is broken, the decision leaves your hands and becomes public fodder.
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Dallas
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2009 3:43 pm

I am a very private person in general. I am very open with friends and family -- basically those I trust. I'm sure my profession affects my perception on privacy, since I deal with privilege and sensitive information all the time. But even in my personal life, I tend to keep my mouth shut about conversations and communications that I have with others. I have always been that way. My feeling is this - if that person wants to share their personal information with others, then that is their place to do it, not mine. I let them be the one to do it, even if they have not specifically said to me "please keep this between us". I, therefore, have a reputation of confidentiality with those who know me well and that I am close to. Those people reciprocate in kind. The trust has been earned.

However, I know that most people do not feel that way and do not follow that rule. So I keep my private information or thoughts private when it comes to the masses.
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LegoJulie
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2009 5:08 pm

Nay wrote:
Granted that I am not a celebrity/fame whore
Fame whore? Laughing lol! Whose business is it anyway? 646968

Once upon a time I wanted fame. Then I discovered I would have no privacy. Now I want anonymity. And more money.
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greyeyegoddess
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2009 7:27 pm

It's been a very interesting conversation within this thread. Very insightful.
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Nay
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2009 7:37 pm

Very insighful and thought-provoking. Thanks everyone. Goal achieved.
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DonnaKat
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2009 6:04 pm

I feel like I've been kicked in the gut.

Trust is not a right - it is a privilege, and something that is earned. And once a person betrays that trust with me, it's almost impossible if not impossible for me to ever have any level of confidence in that person again.

A friend defends...they don't leave a person on their own to get picked on and verbally beaten up on by others. A friend does not allow false gossip and rumors to be spread about a person without sticking up for them and for what's right. A friend does not flatter someone with kind words to their face, and then go behind their back and say hurtful things. How was it stated earlier - playing both ends against the middle?

When a friend leaves a friend alone as a sheep in the midst of wolves, I have to wonder if that person was ever a friend in the first place.
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Nay
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2009 6:49 pm

Donna, I've come to the conclusion that friendship means different things to different people within different contexts.

Let's examine ... Someone who says they are your friend even though you've never met in person, who chats with you regularly, who boosts you with empty words, who follows you through life but brings trouble with them every time, who has a 'fluid' water-like understanding of the truth, who repeats private information, who then scrambles to hide their mistakes ... they are NOT a friend, cyber or real-world.

It's black and white, not shades of grey and the truth always finds its water level.
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DonnaKat
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2009 8:00 pm

The older I get, the more I realize how few friends I really have.

And the more people I meet, the more I like my cats.
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Nay
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2009 8:09 pm

It's never quantity, DK. It's always quality.
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LegoJulie
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeFri Jun 12, 2009 1:11 am

Meow.

Should I find these places?
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greyeyegoddess
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PostSubject: Re: Whose business is it anyway?   Whose business is it anyway? Icon_minitimeFri Jun 12, 2009 1:44 am

I think we finally decide what it was we want...or maybe just don't have the patience for games anymore.

I grew up with the idea that "you should be nice to everyone" or "you should love everyone". Unfortunately, not everyone grew up with that idea and I felt jaded many times, wondering how come people wouldn't accept me as I accepted them? Then I grew up and learned that everyone is different, and I don't have to waste the energy. I don't have to have tons of friends to be happy. I like my small group for now.
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